Packaged Image of Hasbro Marvel Legends X-men '97 Series 1 & 2 Figures

On 3/7/2024 at 7:37 PM, TheArrow said:

Shhh. small historial note: Bandai actually innovated the ganged-hinge elbows and finger/toe articulation with their Kankicki Ryotsu figures. back in arounf 1997. They were really the first to use what's now a standard articulation scheme--and the figures were really good.

Yes. Actually quite a few companies had some products that were very articulated back then and were very good for the time. I don't remember this one in particular. But I was just a wee lass when I'd tag along with my cousin on his comic and hobby shops trounces. We lived in a much larger city back then. And it literally took all day to hit all his hot spots. We came across quite a few awesome items. And usually they came at a pretty hefty cost. But a $40 product back then is probably a $120 product in today's market. What I meant is that Toybiz was the first company to produce a highly articulated product at mass retail level and managed to get that product into those stores and at a fairly reasonable price even for that time. Mostly because Marvel's stock was so hot in those days. But what their products really did at that time was make other companies do better. Like I said had they not done their thing I honestly believe there is a possibility that we'd still be on a 5POA level to this day. I think the most innovative product before that was probably McFarlane products. And they did make others do better as far as sculpts. But they were still basically 5POA's. With maybe the occasional wrist swivel and such. But Toybiz was the catalyst that pushed articulation to the forefront of mainstream product. A lot of people still maintain the articulation boom actually ruined the aesthetics of many products. Not just Todd McFarlane who carried that cross kicking and screaming until he finally realized about 20 years later than everyone else that he had to embrace articulation to stay relevant. And all the articular innovations come from some place and I have no doubt that companies like Bandai and the such had strong roles. But as far as current products I would say Hasbro has hit that sweet spot where aesthetics and functionality are at the best possible balance. As much as I hate Hasbro's corporate approach and their tendencies to put profit over customers they are the best in the business right now.

On 3/6/2024 at 10:41 AM, AndyL said:

Yes, Toybiz was the company that innovated the industry. Without them I have no doubt guys like Hasbro and Mattel would still be pushing 5 PoA and probably selling it for current ML price. Still the inclusion of toe and finger articulation was a little much and honestly mostly meant boost the stats and show how innovative a company could be if they really cared to do so. I think current ML is probably the optimum PoA versus aesthetics balance. Assuming they don't try to eliminate crunch and diaphragm for that waist ball joint. Now they could add it to crunch or diaphragm to improve articulation in certain cases but expecting Hasbro to go above and beyond at this point is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Shhh. small historial note: Bandai actually innovated the ganged-hinge elbows and finger/toe articulation with their Kankicki Ryotsu figures. back in arounf 1997. They were really the first to use what's now a standard articulation scheme--and the figures were really good.

On 3/6/2024 at 11:41 AM, AndyL said:

Yes, Toybiz was the company that innovated the industry. Without them I have no doubt guys like Hasbro and Mattel would still be pushing 5 PoA and probably selling it for current ML price. Still the inclusion of toe and finger articulation was a little much and honestly mostly meant boost the stats and show how innovative a company could be if they really cared to do so. I think current ML is probably the optimum PoA versus aesthetics balance. Assuming they don't try to eliminate crunch and diaphragm for that waist ball joint. Now they could add it to crunch or diaphragm to improve articulation in certain cases but expecting Hasbro to go above and beyond at this point is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

I think the inclusion of extra hands has really eliminated the usefulness of articulated fingers. Except in the Giant-Man. Backers deserve that.

On 3/4/2024 at 3:39 PM, TheArrow said:

We've come so far from "hyper-articulation"--the old Toybiz days--that I no longer miss the articulated toes and fingers and I seldom notice torso articulation too.I'm not really doing ab-crunches in the poses I display, but they can be helpful in some circumstances. Now, mind you....I refuse to go back to 5 PoAs anymore, and anything less than 20 PoAs makes me itchy, but it really depends on who the characters/figures are.

Yes, Toybiz was the company that innovated the industry. Without them I have no doubt guys like Hasbro and Mattel would still be pushing 5 PoA and probably selling it for current ML price. Still the inclusion of toe and finger articulation was a little much and honestly mostly meant boost the stats and show how innovative a company could be if they really cared to do so. I think current ML is probably the optimum PoA versus aesthetics balance. Assuming they don't try to eliminate crunch and diaphragm for that waist ball joint. Now they could add it to crunch or diaphragm to improve articulation in certain cases but expecting Hasbro to go above and beyond at this point is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

On 3/4/2024 at 4:39 PM, TheArrow said:

We've come so far from "hyper-articulation"--the old Toybiz days--that I no longer miss the articulated toes and fingers and I seldom notice torso articulation too.I'm not really doing ab-crunches in the poses I display, but they can be helpful in some circumstances. Now, mind you....I refuse to go back to 5 PoAs anymore, and anything less than 20 PoAs makes me itchy, but it really depends on who the characters/figures are.

Yeah. Remember the TB Luke Cage with his bee-sting allergy swollen hand?

The toe joints definitely are a liability once they get loose. I don't think I mind the new style of ankle, but the ankle joints that TB had on a figure like Psylocke were pretty good too.

I remember collecting the TB 5-inch line as a kid and getting so excited when a figure had ball joints in its shoulders or hips.

Hopefully we don't see an articulation reduction as in the last Hasbro belt-tightening.

On 3/4/2024 at 9:28 AM, AndyL said:

They removed the diaphragm joint on the upper chest or under her breasts if that's okay to say. And then they gave here that terrible reverse ball joint at the waist. And though it is well hidden it's still terrible to be sure as far as articulation means. Just as bad as the Power Man figure was. Compare to pictures of Maddy which does have the proper diaphragm joint with no waist joint. Probably not too big an issue for some but it is for me. To me it looks like they're playing with eliminating the ab crunch for the males and the diaphragm for the females in favor of the reverse ball joint. But it's not a progressive like G.I. Joe Classified where they're actually using the diaphragm and crunch in conjunction with the ball joint to give the figure better articulation. With ML it seems regressive where they're actually eliminating articulation in favor of a cheaper easier means.

I think I see what you mean. I hated when Hasbro first took over and implemented the weird single joint elbows everywhere. They responded to the market with the closed packaging. Hopefully they don't go too far down this road.

We've come so far from "hyper-articulation"--the old Toybiz days--that I no longer miss the articulated toes and fingers and I seldom notice torso articulation too.I'm not really doing ab-crunches in the poses I display, but they can be helpful in some circumstances. Now, mind you....I refuse to go back to 5 PoAs anymore, and anything less than 20 PoAs makes me itchy, but it really depends on who the characters/figures are.

I think one thing they could have done to get Goblin Queen on next level would have been them hiding thigh cut by fully inserting leg into her thigh high boots, yes it would have been hard to do but figure would end up so much more aesthetically satisfying.

On 3/4/2024 at 11:43 AM, SpiderS said:

Agreed they really messed up with Jean Grey's torso articulation. Overall sculpt is also pretty weak, I feel like 3-pack Jean for all its flaws was more interesting figure sculpt and paint wise. I wonder if I can give arms from 97 Jean to 3 pack Jean.

Exactly. Normally when they eliminate major articulation it's for aesthetic reasons or at least they can try and play it off that way. But this did nothing for the sculpt. In fact I think it may actually make it look worse. It ended up making her look way too thin and childish. Looking at the Maddy figure they actually could have made a better case to do it on her as to try and keep the lines of the sculpt true. But I'm glad they didn't do it because it still looks amazing. Three Jean Greys in and they still haven't really gotten her right. First Maddy out of the gate and they did a pretty fine job. Scoreboard Maddy. Sorry Jeannie. Maybe in another few years.

Agreed they really messed up with Jean Grey's torso articulation. Overall sculpt is also pretty weak, I feel like 3-pack Jean for all its flaws was more interesting figure sculpt and paint wise. I wonder if I can give arms from 97 Jean to 3 pack Jean.